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本帖最后由 chenke 于 2014-8-12 11:26 编辑
Ellie扮演者:Ashley Johnson
TLoU主创:Bruce Straley
TLoU主创:Neil Druckmann
EDGE:Let’s talk about the very last exchange in the game between Joel and Ellie. Story-driven games have notorious diffi***y with figuring out how to drop the curtain in a satisfying way, yet The Last Of Us strikes just the right balance between conclusiveness and ambiguity. Ashley, as the actor bringing Ellie to life, what did you think when you read those pages of the script for the first time?
EDGE:让我们来谈谈游戏最后那场Joel和Ellie的交流吧，故事驱动的游戏在想圆满落下帷幕方面是出了名的难，但The Last of Us很好的平衡了结论性和歧义性。Ashley，你作为给Ellie带来生命的人，你第一次读到这些对白时你是怎么想的？
Ashley Johnson: It’s funny because that ending, everybody’s interpreted it so differently. In my mind, Joel and Ellie have already gone on this whole journey and Ellie is fully prepared – if finding the cure and getting the cure means dying – then so be it. But finally having a connection and a relationship with somebody, that becomes more important because it’s like, I’ve finally connected with somebody in this world. If your choice is to save me over everybody else in the world then…ok. I trust you now and let’s live life.
Ashley Johnson:这非常有趣，因为每个人对结局的解读都大不一样。在我看来，Joel和Ellie已经奔波了整个旅程，Ellie也是完全准备好了——如果找到和提取疫苗意味着（她）死亡——那就这样吧。但是她和大叔之间却最终产生了无法割裂的牵绊，这变得更加重要，因为在这末日世界里，一直孤独一人的她终于有了“亲人”的存在，如果“亲人”的抉择是救我远甚于救世界上其他人...ok，我信任你，让我俩一起生活下去吧。
EDGE:In that moment she’s giving Joel permission to lie to her, which is a bit unsettling but also beautiful in the level of trust it conveys.
EDGE:在那一瞬间，她给了Joel对她说谎的许可，虽然眼神里有一点心绪不宁，但传达出的信任感非常动人
BS: I like that it can be read different ways. Like we were talking about earlier with the title, just with the two little syllables of Ellie’s “ok” to Joel, depending on where your head space is when you get there and how committed you are toward Joel and his goals, how aligned you are with who he is versus how much you’re committed to Ellie and what her perspective is, that commitment that she had. She was ready, to the ends of the earth, whatever it’s going to take, we were going to do it. It could really be read in several different ways, and it is open-ended and it is a somewhat ironic ending. It’s not your typical ending, but it’s still a nice resolution to me. It has a nice finality of, ok, all right.
Bruce Straley：我喜欢结局被不同方式解读，如我们早先谈到的一样，Ellie最后给Joel的台词就只有2个音节“ok”，这就取决于身临此景的玩家你怎么思考了，取决于你对Joel和他的目标有多坚定，取决于你如何衡量“Joel是什么样的人”和“你对Ellie有多坚定以及她对她所承担的任务的观点”。她准备好了：就算到世界尽头，无论会夺走什么，我们都要做。这个结局真的可以不同方式解读，它是一个开放性结局，也是一个略带讽刺意味的结局。它不是一个你心目中传统典型的结局，但对我来说它是个非常不错的解决方案，它是一个好尾声。
ND: Some people read it as, oh, they left it open for a sequel – cool! And what we’re saying is, if we never make a sequel, that’ll be alright. In our mind the journey has been wrapped up.
Neil Druckmann: 有些玩家把这个结局看作是“哦，他们这是留着给续集用，好极了！” 其实我们想说的是，如果我们不出续集，这结局也没问题。在我们看来，这段旅程已经收尾了。
---06.27更新后半译文---
EDGE:In a podcast we were listening to recently, there was a discussion about when it’s ok and even prudent for parents to lie to their children because there’s an aspect of life that they’re not yet mature enough to process. Yet Ellie is too savvy to be persuaded by Joel’s denial in those final moments. She clearly knows what the score is and why she was important.
EDGE:最近听了一段播客，是些关于“因为孩子在处理生活中的一些问题时还不够成熟，家长什么时候对孩子说谎最明智”的讨论。然而游戏的最后，Ellie很聪明的接受了Joel的谎言，她很清楚地知道实情是什么和为什么她很重要。
ND: We were talking about this between ourselves yesterday. Ellie’s got a good bullshit detector, which is why she knows something is up with David from the moment she meets him. She doesn’t know what, but she knows there’s something off.
You were asking earlier why I thought the game would be polarising. There are people who hate the ending with a passion. Because we have focus tests toward the end of production and we do these exit interviews, and there are people who have said, ‘I love the game, love the mechanics, love the combat, but you’ve gotta fix the ending, you really have to fix the ending.’
BS: Yeah, just wanted [Joel and Ellie] to save the day.
ND: 昨天我们自己之间还在讨论这个问题。Ellie就像个很灵的测谎仪，所以当她初次遇到David时，她就知道David有点不对劲，她不知道具体是什么，但她知道这人肯定有问题。
你早些时候问为什么我认为这款游戏会两极化：有些人确实非常讨厌这个结局，在开发末期我们举办了集中测试，我们也做了测试员的离职采访，有些人曾说道“我爱这游戏，我爱它的设计，我爱它的战斗模式，但你们得改结局，你们真的必须修改这个结局。”
BS: 对，他们就是想 [Joel 和 Ellie]能拯救世界。
ND: I think the most painful comment from a focus tester was, ‘Because she kind of reminds him of his daughter, he’s going to sacrifice mankind? Whatever.’
AJ: But not everybody’s going to be satisfied with an ending.
ND: 我觉得最让人伤心的测试员评论就是，“因为Ellie某种程度上让Joel想起自己的女儿，所以他就牺牲了全人类？（我对此）没啥感觉啦”。
AJ: 并非所有人都满意这样的结局。
ND: I’d rather people be passionate about it either way than shrug and say, yeah that was good.
BS: But it’s different, even from a movie, right? You’re so invested because it’s you with the controller pushing this thing forward. You get to that point and there’s an identity that you relate to Joel and Ellie, and I think in stereotypical games, the ending would be, everything’s good, we saved the day and everybody’s happy, and we’re all, yay, awesome! But this is two flawed characters in an ambiguous situation, the world is a dark world, hard choices have had to be made.
ND: 相对于玩家耸耸肩随便说句“哦这结局不错”，我更希望人们能热烈讨论这个开放式结局。
BS: 但这和电影不同，对吧？玩家会很投入，因为玩家是那个拿着手柄推动剧情发展、伴随着Joel和Ellie完成旅程的人，而我觉得老一套游戏的结局就是：一切圆满，我们拯救了世界，每个人都很高兴，我们都很，哇，了不起！ 但这是两个有瑕疵的角色，在这样黑暗的世界里，善恶模糊的情况下，不得不做出艰难的选择。
ND: The journey was kind of for nothing, but at the same time it was for everything.
BS: Yeah, this beautiful relationship has been formed and these characters have completely changed. Ellie’s completely capable and both characters have completed an arc. It’s an interesting thing that it’s different, but not intentionally trying to be different.
ND: 这趟旅程多少有些一无所获，但同时这趟旅程又获得了一切
BS: 没错，两人之间产生了美丽的牵绊，两人也因此发生了彻底的改变。Ellie也完全成长起来了，两个角色都完成了一个圆满的弧线。这样的改变很有趣，但却不是刻意所为。
ND: The original ending that for a long time we discussed is Ellie would believe the lie and you’d see them walking off to Tommy’s town and the camera would track up and you’d feel like, they’re going to be ok. It was about a week before we shot that scene and we thought, this isn’t honest, this doesn’t feel right, Ellie would know, I don’t buy it, we have to change this.
This is an Ashley thing but no matter what the acting direction is, she’s going to nod her head and be like, ‘ok…ok’. And throughout shooting, a lot of her improvisation for Ellie involved saying, ‘ok’. And I thought, you have to end on that. Whatever it is Joel tells her, she has to just be like, ‘ok’.
ND: 在很长一段时间，我们讨论的初始结局是这样的，Ellie相信了Joel的谎言，你可以看到他俩走向Tommy的营地，镜头跟踪前进，你会感觉他们一切都会好的。在实拍结局场景的一周前，我们思考道，这不诚实，这感觉不对劲，Ellie应该是知道真相的，我也不相信，我们得改变这个结局。
这是Ashley的个人特点，不管表演指导的是什么，她总是点点她的头然后说‘ok…ok’。而在整个拍摄过程中， 她的很多即兴表演里Ellie总会说，‘ok’。 所以我就想，我们就以这句作为结局。无论Joel告诉她什么，她只会像这样说，‘ok’。
EDGE:So Ashley, when you’d say that to Neil, you weren’t being glib, it really was a matter of trusting his direction. Is that the same feeling you wanted Ellie to communicate to Joel?
EDGE:所以 Ashley，当你对Neil说ok时，你并不是开玩笑，你是真的非常信任他的指导了。这和你想让Ellie传达给Joel的感觉是一样的吧？
AJ: That’s how I was playing it. Obviously she has a bullshit detector, she clearly knows he’s lying, but she says, alright, let’s see where this goes.
ND: And it’s also like, how do you approach that? Would she start asking very detailed questions? Why would they release me before I woke up? Why wouldn’t I talk to someone before leaving? Was Marlene there? No, she would just ask the one obvious question: are you lying?
AJ: 我就是这样演绎的。很明显Ellie是个测谎仪，她清楚地知道他在说谎，但她说，好吧，让我们看将来走向何方吧。
ND: 这也好比是，你怎样应对（他的谎言）呢？ 她会开始问很具体的问题吗？为什么我醒之前火萤就放了我？为什么我离开前没和他们说两句？Marlene在那儿吗？不，她只是问了一个显而易见的问题：你在撒谎吗？
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发表于 2013-6-25 16:03 · 浙江
